Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kiran: Hi, my name is Kiran Bishop. I'm 17 years old and I became interested in finance freshman year of high school. As I became part of financial clubs, I realized that a great deal of the time I was one of, if not the only girl in the room. This feeling of being disconnected to everyone around me while simultaneously being in a room full of people is what inspired me to create this podcast. Women Who Earn. I created this podcast to help young girls like me gain knowledge and wisdom from industry professionals on topics ranging from how to break into finance, to how to deal with unique challenges posed from being a woman in the industry. It's important for me, and I hope that it is also important for you, that feeling alienated by situation out of your control does not inhibit your motivation to pursue whatever you want.
[00:00:47] Kiran: This is Women Who Earn.
[00:00:50] Kiran: Hi, and thank you so much for joining me for today's episode of Women Who Earn. Today, we are joined by Christina Kim, head of Partnerships at Girls Who [00:01:00] Invest. Christina manages partners for Girls Who Invest. In this role, she supports the current partner community of over a hundred asset management firms to build engagement, coordinate internships, facilitate partner events, and drive communication. She's focused on expanding these relationships as well as leading other fundraising initiatives to support the G W I program. Before joining Girls Who Invest in 2021, Christina was a portfolio manager in the multi-asset class investment group of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, working with endowment and foundation clients. Prior to joining G S A M, she worked as a portfolio manager at Family Office ArcherOak Capital Management. Previously, she was a partner and senior research analyst at hedge fund Andor Capital Management. Christina earned a BA in Economics and at MA in Sociology from Stanford University. Outside of work, she enjoys international travel, foreign films, trying different kinds of coffee, [00:02:00] and taking too many photos of her kids.
[00:02:04] Kiran: Thank you so much for joining me today. I think we can just start off with you telling me a little bit about yourself, like maybe your career trajectory and how you got to where you are today.
[00:02:16] Christina: Yeah. And thanks so much for having me. It's really a pleasure to be here with you and, to share a little bit. So, I started my career in financial services right after graduating from college. I was an econ major and I think, I didn't really know what I wanted to do professionally, but most of the econ majors pursued either consulting or investment banking out of undergrad. So those are the two tracks that I kind of interviewed for and ended up as an investment banking analyst for my first job out of undergrad in San Francisco.
[00:02:48] Christina: And it was around the time of the first kind of tech bubble just getting started. So it was really exciting time to be in technology and in finance. being based out on the West coast, after less [00:03:00] than two years of banking, about a year and a half in I, there was an opportunity to join a hedge fund, which I didn't know really anything about at the time, but it was through word of mouth, through, someone that I was working with.
[00:03:12] Christina: And I ended up joining, a technology hedge fund, less than two years out of undergrad. And that's how I sort of got into the next stage of my career, which was being a hedge fund investor, covering the technology sector, which I did for the next, about two decades at different firms.
[00:03:30] Christina: And then most recently I joined Goldman Sachs in asset management, so kind of transitioning from the hedge fund industry to something related, but a little bit different. So there I worked primarily with endowments and foundations in helping to manage their assets. After about four years there, I was looking for something a little bit different and ended up at Girls Who Invest, which we can talk a little bit about.
[00:03:52] Christina: But I've been doing that for about two and a half years as the head of partnerships supporting their mission. So that's been, it's been a really [00:04:00] great transition.
[00:04:02] Kiran: Yeah. Was there a single experience that inspired you to join Girls Who Invest or was it an organization that you stumbled upon?
[00:04:10] Christina: Yeah, so I had heard of girls who Invest for a while because the founder, who is Seema Hingorani, we actually worked together, gosh, over 10 years ago, at a hedge fund that we were both at at the time. That was before she started Girls Who Invest. But over the years I had heard about the organization was really inspired by the work that they were doing.
[00:04:30] Christina: I think the mission really resonated strongly with me because having started in a sector hedge funds, which was very underrepresented in terms of women, I really felt the mission on a very personal level. And so when this opportunity came up, I was curious. I never really thought about doing nonprofit work before. Always thought I would do something related to finance, but I met the team and really was inspired to by the mission and the work and the opportunity that I would have as in the partnership [00:05:00] role. And that's what motivated me to join.
[00:05:04] Kiran: Right. You said that you always thought you were gonna do something in finance. Does that mean that in like high school or college you were really set on the path?
[00:05:12] Christina: No, definitely not. Not that early. so I grew up, my parents worked for the government and I never really had exposure to finance as a profession growing up. Really the first time was when I started interviewing for my first job when I was in college. And that was like, I don't know, my senior year. I'd heard about different careers while I was in, in college, but never really had a strong direction one way or the other. But as I started interviewing and learning more about what investment banking was or what type of work that I'd be doing it.
[00:05:43] Christina: I ended up finding a firm that I thought was really interesting and I just joined. It was kind of a leap of faith.
[00:05:52] Kiran: Well, I mean, I guess it worked out, right?
[00:05:55] Christina: Yeah. Most of the time it works out. Even if it's not, you know, a permanent decision [00:06:00] you'll learn something from it.
[00:06:02] Kiran: Right. Thank you. And what moment are you most proud of in your journey?
[00:06:08] Christina: Yeah, I think I'm most proud of the work that I'm part of now as part of Girls Who Invest. So I really strongly believe in the mission. I think I spent the first two decades of my career really just focused on my job and performing well in my job and really like progressing and advancing in my own career.
[00:06:28] Christina: And it's only through this transition to or joining girls who invest that I really, I feel like I've had the opportunity to start giving back and helping others as their. Starting their careers. And that's been really personally rewarding for me. I think there have been moments along the way in my career where I've been proud of an individual accomplishment.
[00:06:47] Christina: Like when you make an investment call that goes well, then of course you're proud and you're excited. But kind of on a deeper, more meaningful level of like personal fulfillment, I think the world that I'm in now has been that, [00:07:00] in terms of kind of being proud and feeling really, inspired by the work that I'm doing personally and professionally.
[00:07:07] Kiran: And what sorts of things does girls who invest do? Do they perform a lot of outreach?
[00:07:12] Christina: Yeah, so girls Who Invest just a high level overview of the organization is that our mission is to bring more young women and gender binary individuals, into investment management.
[00:07:22] Christina: Through a combination of education, internships, mentorship, and community. And the way that we do that is we have a program for undergrads. We have our flagship program is the summer intensive program, which is for rising juniors. So scholars who are in their sophomore year apply and then participate in an 11 week program in the summer right after their sophomore year.
[00:07:46] Christina: And it combines four weeks of in-person education with a seven week paid internship in investing investment management. We also have an online intensive program, which is, as the name would suggest, it's asynchronous and self-directed [00:08:00] learning, which covers a lot of the same fundamentals that we do in the four week curriculum, but over a longer timeframe.
[00:08:06] Christina: And there's more flexibility in how scholars can do that program. So the goal of both is to really introduce young people to the field of investment management as a career, which is kind of half the battle of getting more people to apply, is just awareness and knowledge that this is out there.
[00:08:21] Christina: It's a really rewarding career and giving access to a greater number of young people than may have historically been the case by providing these opportunities.
[00:08:31] Kiran: Right. Thank you. And what's the most valuable lesson that you've learned at Girls Who Invest?
[00:08:40] Christina: I think one of the lessons has been just the power of an individual, of a small group of individuals to really make a difference. Our vision at Girls who invest is 30 by 30 or 30% of the world's investible capital to be managed by women by 2030, which is a really ambitious [00:09:00] vision, I would say. And at first glance you might say that's unattainable, but I think really rather than kind of the the literal kind of achieving that vision is really, it's our North star.
[00:09:12] Christina: It kind of inspires all of the work that we do to date. And I think I've seen that play out in a number of ways. I've seen how individual mentors can really make a difference in a scholar's trajectory. I've seen how individual firms that are really mission aligned with us in giving these opportunities can make a difference.
[00:09:30] Christina: And the power of a community of firms, of individuals, mentors, our team coming together. We've now reached, after this summer we'll have over 2,400 young women and gender non-binary individuals who have gone through the program. And that's a significant number. We started with a class of just 30 in 2016, and now we've reached over 2,400, which is pretty powerful. Wow. And we have a lot, a long ways to go in the industry, but I think every year, every individual, every partner firm[00:10:00] is just one step closer to moving towards that vision.
[00:10:03] Kiran: Right. And do you have a personal opinion on why there is such a big gender gap in the industry?
[00:10:13] Christina: Yeah, I think there's a number of reasons for that. I think historically, Perhaps not as many women went pursued this as a career. And I think the roots of that probably start early on in terms of the gender gap, in terms of who's pursuing stem and STEM-based fields, but I think even when you apply for your first job, perhaps not as many young women were looking or interviewing for entry-level positions, I think that's changed a lot over the years where now if you look at certain investment banking analyst classes, they're much more balanced.
[00:10:47] Christina: But I still think there are fields where not as many women apply. For example, private equity probably, and even hedge funds. Based on the feedback that we're hearing is that. They just don't see as many female applicants as as [00:11:00] they would like. So I think that still remains the case. And then I think there's a retention issue.
[00:11:05] Christina: So for women that do go into investing as a career. I think at some point there are there's a natural drop off for a number of them, and that can occur at different points in a career. But retention has been a really big issue in the industry. So that's kind of the next area for our organization is not just getting more young women in, which is the first step, but how do we help support to keep them in the industry once they make that decision to enter? And that's that's an even more ambitious challenge, but one that we are we know is necessary to address the gender imbalance.
[00:11:36] Kiran: Right. And you sort of touched on how there are a few different reasons there are retention issues. Yeah. Would you mind going into a little bit more detail about what these reasons are or what they may be?
[00:11:49] Christina: I think there have been a lot of probably studies on these reasons, but anecdotally there's probably a few points in which attrition happens just at a larger level.
[00:11:58] Christina: I think one point is [00:12:00] maybe two to three years out of undergrad when you've had your first job as an analyst and you're trying to think about whether you go back to business school or you consider you, you try to achieve the promotion to associate or the next level. So I think that's kind of one decision point where people might make a change in their direction. 'cause once you go to business school to, I think oftentimes you may see a change of direction. Like if you were in banking and then you go to business school, that might be because you wanna try something different coming out. I think another natural attrition point might be for women who maybe after you settle down, you're at a different point in your life and you have kids.
[00:12:39] Christina: I would venture a guess to say that would be another point where you see women making those decisions to potentially leave the industry. And there are probably others as well, but those are two that come to mind.
[00:12:51] Christina: Right. Yeah. Especially with the other guests that I've interviewed for this podcast, a lot of them have also mentioned the second reason as [00:13:00] why some women choose to leave the industry. Keeping onto the topic of being a woman in a male dominated industry, but more so on your personal experience, has there ever been a time where you were the only woman in the room and maybe how did that make you feel, or how did you go about navigating that situation and ensuring that your voice and perspective was heard?
[00:13:24] Christina: For sure, particularly earlier on in my career, there were times when I was one of the only, if not one of very few women in the room that might've been at an industry conference or like at a company dinner with management teams. And it is intimidating, especially when you're starting out early on in your career.
[00:13:42] Christina: And so you're one of the younger people in the room and you might be the only woman in the room. So that was definitely at the time, somewhat intimidating. I think I addressed it by just trying to be as prepared as I could be going into those [00:14:00] situations, trying to ask good questions, kind of trying to fit in and I think things have changed a lot since those days where at that time I think I just wanted to try to fit in with the other, like men investors in the room. Right? I didn't want to be different. I didn't wanna be noticed. I did, I just kind of wanted to blend in and be a chameleon. And the way that I did that was I tried to just be friendly with my peers, whether they were men or women, be prepared for the meetings. I think now there's a lot more appreciation of being different, and I think that can often work to your advantage. Being the only woman in the room, right? Whether that's because you stand out, they remember you, if you are assertive in that meeting, you make great points. I think you're more likely to be remembered. So I think now I think I would approach things a little bit differently if I were starting my career over again. Because I definitely think there's advantages, but I think as someone early, starting on and being the only in the room, that is definitely a challenge. And that's something that we work with our scholars on as well, is[00:15:00] how do you transition into a professional environment where that is the case?
[00:15:04] Christina: And oftentimes you might feel excluded in certain ways. So it's something that we work with our scholars and one way that we address that is the community that we help to form through our programs. So when you're in the program, you're with over 200 other scholars who are like you, and you're really going through this intense experience together.
[00:15:23] Christina: And we find that community extends even beyond the internships. But even as people progress into their first jobs, they help each other find jobs, they recruit each other they're friends, they're roommates. And so really they are the first kind of go-to when you're having a bad day at work or when you need advice on negotiating your compensation. Those are the people that are there for you, and I think that makes a huge difference in helping to support and retain women.
[00:15:51] Kiran: Right. I love the community that Girls Who Invest has created, it's sort of like a mentorship program between you guys and the younger women [00:16:00] who are trying to get into the industry. Did you ever have a personal mentor when you were getting into the industry and did that help?
[00:16:07] Christina: Yeah, I was thinking about that question. So I don't think I had the traditional, in the traditional sense of the word mentor, as in a more senior individual kind of takes you under their wing and gives you career advice. But what I do think I had a lot of were peer mentors and so, not all mentors have to be more senior to you and kind of that model that we traditionally think about. I heard someone recently say that your peers are your greatest mentors, and I think that was the case for me. I had many different kind of peer mentors over the years, whether they could have been colleagues that were working with me at the same firm. They included other peers that worked at other firms in the industry that I would go to with certain questions or if I just needed to kind of talk about; I was having a bad day or a bad stock call and just kind of needed someone to commiserate with or get advice around or you know, when I thought maybe I should look at other opportunities kind of going to them.
[00:16:59] Christina: So I would [00:17:00] say that my mentors were my peers. And I would really encourage people to think about mentorship that way. It doesn't have to be just kind of one model, it can come from a lot of different places.
[00:17:10] Kiran: Thank you. That's very beautifully put. No, it's true. It is. And I guess if you could do it all over again, would you do anything differently or would you take the same path?
[00:17:23] Christina: Yeah, I think. What I would do differently is I would've taken more risks. I think I was really risk averse, especially early on in my career, and I thought I was the kind of person that was gonna stay in a role as long as that role was there for me, whereas I don't always think I.
[00:17:41] Christina: I don't think you should move around constantly, but I do think you should be open to taking different risks, especially if you think maybe you've outgrown a certain role or you're not learning as much, or, your goals and ,your professional goals may evolve over time. But I think I was too risk averse and I wanted to kind of hang on to what I had, which was [00:18:00] pretty good, versus thinking about taking that risk that might have felt uncomfortable in that moment, because when you're young, that's when you have ample leeway to take those risks. One of our board members who is, Kim Lew, who's the CEO of the Columbia Endowment, she said it really well. She had a boss who let her fail upward and kind of her boss said, you can't make any mistake that, I'm paraphrasing here, but you can't make any mistake that I can't undo or I can't fix so feel free to take those risks, those professional risks and learn. And I think that's really empowering. And so I think finding those types of opportunities where you can take risks and you're not so scared to do that, that if you mess up you're scared to fail. I think that that's really important. So that's something that I would do. And also know your worth. So I think a lot of times I was very grateful for the opportunity, which I still am, but at, you have to kind of know your worth and the value that you're bringing to the table. And so if you feel like [00:19:00] that isn't being recognized fully, or there's opportunities to kind of get.
[00:19:04] Christina: More recognition for that or more appreciation of what you bring to the table. Feel confident in that because that you have to also acknowledge and be aware of what your value is.
[00:19:14] Kiran: Right. And would you have any advice for going about getting this recognition?
[00:19:21] Christina: That's a good question, and I don't know that I did the best job of this in my career. I'm certainly still learning. I thought that if you just kept your head down and you did your job, that would result in automatic recognition. But that's definitely not the case. You do have to kind of make sure that people are aware of your contributions because they're all busy doing their jobs.
[00:19:41] Christina: They're, they probably have multiple people reporting to them. So one thing we tell our scholars is to first you have to perform, right? You have to be a performer, you have to be steeped in a culture of high performance yourself, but also take notes on kind of what you've done, you know, all of the things that you've accomplished, and then at the right moments, whether that's when [00:20:00] you're doing your self evaluation or you're having a talk with your manager, you can make sure that you bring those things up in those conversations because you have to be assertive in making people aware of what you've accomplished and not just assume that it will be recognized because you did it, which is not the case, it is not always the case.
[00:20:18] Christina: I think other things you can do are recognizing other people, not just yourself. People are worried about being self seeing, self-promotional, but kind of in the context of recognizing other people's work. I think naturally your involvement in those projects also comes to light. But yeah, I think that's something very important to do, even starting early on in a career.
[00:20:39] Kiran: Right. Thank you. And what's the best advice that you've ever received? It doesn't have to be career-wise. It could just be life advice.
[00:20:49] Christina: Yeah, I would say don't worry too much. I mean, it's very contrite, but what I guess what, when I first started my job, I think I had just had a [00:21:00] really bad stock call. I. I was like, maybe a few months into the job, and I think I missed an opportunity and I was so scared that I was gonna get fired because I was working in a tough culture.
[00:21:12] Christina: It was a really very performance driven environment. And at the time, my boss, who was my manager, he said, What's the worst thing that's gonna happen? I was like, well the worst thing that's gonna happen is I could get fired and lose my job. And he's like, yeah, you'd go out and you would find another opportunity.
[00:21:28] Christina: That would be great. Obviously we don't want you to get fired, but always kind of think in that way is that if you're somebody that does their best and you are someone that does good work, that will be recognized over time. So don't be too scared about what might happen. I think you kind of just have to realize that even when things don't go the way that you had initially intended or the way that you'd planned out for your life, other o opportunities show up.
[00:21:56] Christina: There's always a plan B, which ends, which could end up being the best thing that [00:22:00] ever happened to your career. So the other thing is kind of don't plan too much. It's good to have a plan, but I think you have to also be open to the other opportunities that pop up when you're busy planning for your life.
[00:22:11] Christina: And sometimes those are the most fortuitous ones that end up being great for you to pursue.
[00:22:19] Kiran: Yeah. Thank you. And my final question is, do you have any closing advice for girls who are interested in pursuing your specific career, and what advice do you have for building meaningful connections and collaborations?
[00:22:33] Christina: Yeah, so my first plug is apply for Girls Who Invest. I think it's a really great opportunity to have exposure to the industry, meet an amazing community of peers, mentors. It's really a great way for. Young people who are curious about the industry may not have, we don't require any kind of prior experience.
[00:22:54] Christina: It's open to women of all backgrounds, majors, experiences. So please think about [00:23:00] applying if you are a sophomore or the online program is also open to first years. The other thing is in terms of developing relationships, as I heard someone say once, is don't think about what other people can do for you.
[00:23:12] Christina: Think about what you can do for others. So it's all about kind of relationships at the end of the day, any kind of professional. Career is about relationships and investing is no different. So when you meet somebody and you wanna stay in touch with them don't just email them when you need something. Email them when you see an article that you think they'd be interested in and say, Hey, I thought of you. Or keep in touch, drop them an email and say, you know, I just wanted to drop you a short note, let you know how I'm doing in school. Or, I'm interviewing for this internship, even if it has nothing to do with what they're doing.
[00:23:42] Christina: Because I think those little things, Oftentimes it's the little things, as much as it is the big things that kind of make you memorable and help to kind of develop that relationship. So it's really about staying in touch with people and kind of thinking of ways to connect with them outside of when you need something from them.
[00:23:59] Christina: It's [00:24:00] just investing in them. And that goes for peers, that goes for more senior people. And just remember that your peers could be your greatest asset going forward in terms of that community. 'cause today they may be in the same boat as you, but you never know where life is gonna take you in the future.
[00:24:14] Christina: And I think those relationships are where I've seen really playing out in the future in terms of helping move advance you and maybe one day you can help them. But those, investing in those relationships is something that's really important. And that I wish I did. I did that early on, but I think I could have done even more of that early on.
[00:24:34] Kiran: Right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:24:37] Christina: Thank you, Kiran, for having me. Really appreciate it.
[00:24:40] Kiran: Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of Woman Who Earn. I hope to see you next time.
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